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Buying A Kelt ( )
Posted by: F : Moussaillon - E : Ship's Boy Luis (IP Logged)
Date: 10/05/2004 01:08PM

I'm comparing a Kelt to a Mirage 25 anyone have any opinions? My intent is to do some cruising and racing in the Toronto area

Thanks!

Re: Buying A Kelt ( ) (Comment or Suggestion)
Posted by: F : Moussaillon - E : Ship's Boy Paul & Sharon (IP Logged)
Date: 10/07/2004 08:33AM

Luis:
Sharon and I have owned an '82 Kelt 7.60 for three seasons now and sail her out of Port Dover on Lake Erie. This particular boat had been raced by the previous owner and had done quite well. She's even won an 'overall' Youngstown race. We haven't raced her ourselves, officially that is, as we prefer to cruise. Kelt's are designed as cruiser/racers, so will do well at both. She suits the two of us for cruising comfort, as we spend most weekends and holidays aboard. As for racing, she's lighter than your standard racing fleet vessel, so she'll be tossed around in heavier seas and winds, but she accelerates quickly and goes best in lighter air. She'll tune up well....when she's balanced on a reach, there's no better feeling than the hum off the tiller while she sails herself !
There are so few Kelts around, we'd be curious to know the history on this one you're looking at, where's she located and which broker (if any) the seller is using.
By the way, when buying a boat, Sharon and I have stuck with the adage.....go with your gut feeling and your first impression.
When we first looked at 'Falcons Nest', and we'd looked at quite a few.....we loved her. After three seasons, we not disappointed!

Re: Buying A Kelt ( ) (Comment or Suggestion)
Posted by: F : Moussaillon - E : Ship's Boy Gil Berazadi (IP Logged)
Date: 10/08/2004 08:56PM

Hi David:
I remember your boat CERTA CITO in the Highlands Yacht Club in Scarborough Blufs. Now I am the only one with a KELT 7.6 in this club. You got a good deal and the boat too with the new owner. Mine does not have the sink and marine toilet or the option to make a double berth like yours but have furling and autopilot.
Enjoy it
Gil

Re: Buying A Kelt ( ) (Comment or Suggestion)
Posted by: F : Moussaillon - E : Ship's Boy David Bakody (IP Logged)
Date: 10/10/2004 01:13PM

Kelt 25 1984
Excellent condition. Absolutely sail away. Owner is moving up. Brand new VHF, depthsounder, two new batteries 2004. Fully battened main. Hood furling with 150% #1, 110% #3. Four stroke Honda outboard. Delta anchor with 35' chain, 100' rode. Includes cradle. Recent survey 2001.
CDN $16,995
(905) 421-0322 day
E-mail: rob@rdesigncreative.com
Web: www.rdesigncreative.com/kelt

Luis........in three words "JUMP ON IT"............ I would buy this boat boat unseen !knowing what I know about a Kelt 7.6......as for racing and crusing...most if not all are rated crusing/racing......the maufactures are in the selling business, hard core racers ( good sailors) know which boat they want. Winning is a team effort coupled with consistant skill. If you get a good boat for racing you will pay for corrected time (PHRF) The Mirage 25 is a good boat but not a Kelt...notice the price differences.....this one is a beauty,a once in life time buy and i am here in NS and have not seen it.....many will agree with me she looks like a doll.....as stated you must make your choice.......you asked I just told you....buy it quick and get on with your life and many safe hours sailing........good luck

David.......

Re: Buying A Kelt ( ) (Comment or Suggestion)
Posted by: F : Moussaillon - E : Ship's Boy David Bakody (IP Logged)
Date: 10/10/2004 01:32PM

Gil:

Thanks for the kind words, CERTA CITO now has a new Harken Furling, Spring boat show from North Sails, I believe having good sailmakers on side our North Sail representatives have many years of experience and treat their customers well in all respects. I may upgrade my travaller one more notch ( upgraded with new blocks last year) but will see, I sail with main and a # 3 and in heavy gusts it is important for me to drop the travaller so perhaps some better purchase advantage would be better ( Yea I know I could reef, but I just love scotten in a breezy weather.....

David

Re: Buying A Kelt ( ) (Comment or Suggestion) (Comment or Suggestion)
Posted by: F : Moussaillon - E : Ship's Boy Gil Berazadi (IP Logged)
Date: 10/12/2004 12:31PM

Hi:
I am the happy owner for over 10 years of a very good quality KELT 7.6.

Go to the web site below and compare with the Mirage 25 or other boats.

[www.image-ination.com]

You can use it to look up sailboat parameters in a large database of boats, or enter your own boat and compare to the others. In addition, for any boat you can calculate a set of quantities that will help you measure how it will perform.

General specs and calculations from 2 web sites:

From [sailquest.com]

Kelt 7.6
Specifications:

L.O.A.: 24' 11" (7.60 m)
L.W.L.: 21' 0" (6.40 m)
Beam: 9' 5" (2.88 m)
Draft: 4' 3" (1.30 m)
Displacement: 4500 lbs. (2041 kg.)
Ballast: 1765 lbs. (800.6 kg.)
Sail area: 240 sq. ft. (22.32 m²) (or 285 sq. ft.?)
Motor: outboard (9.9 hp).
Headroom: 6' 0" (1.83 m)
Berths: 4 to 5
Rating (PHRF-LO) : 210

Price range: $16,000 to $20,000

The Kelt 7.6 is a French design which was first built in France, and then under licence in Ontario, Canada. It won the very prestigious "boat of the year" award at the 1980 Paris Boat Show. The Kelt successfully squeezed a lot of living space, including an aft head and a real chart table, in seaworthy and modern looking 25 footer. Because these boats were built in the mid-1980s, the Kelt is one of the newer 25 footer that can be found on the Canadian used market. It should be noted that some Kelt 7.6s were built with a motor well for an outboard in lieu of a transom bracket.

by Michael McGoldrick.
[ Copyright & Disclaimer ]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Using Sailcalculator from [www.image-ination.com]
Name: KELT 7.6
Basic quantities (inches converted to decimal)
LOA : 24'11" (24.92) LWL: 21' Beam"9' 5" (9.42) Displacement: 4500 pounds
Sail Area: 285 sq. feet (Main + 100% Fore triangle)

Derived quantities.
Displacement to LWL: 217
A medium value would be 200. 300 would be high (Heavy Cruising Boat) and 100 would be low (Ultra Light Displacement-ULDB). Boats with low numbers are probably uncomfortable and difficult to sail.
Hull Speed: 6.14
This is the maximum speed of a displacement hull. Some racers and lighter boats are able to achieve greater speed by lifting over the bow wave and riding on top of the water,that is, planing.
Sail Area to Displacement: 16.73
The sail area is the total of the main sail and the area of the front triangle. I cannot be sure that this datum was entered correctly for each listed boat. A racing boat typically has large sail area and low displacement. A number less than 13 probably indicates that the boat is a motorsailer. High performance boats would be around 18 or higher.
LWL to Beam: 2.23
A medium value would be 2.7. 3.0 would be high and 2.3 would be low
Motion Comfort:15.69
Range will be from 5 to 60+ with a Whitby 42 at the mid 30's. The higher the number the more comfort in a sea. This figure of merit was developed by the Yacht designer Ted Brewer and is meant to compare the motion comfort of boats of similar size and types.
Capsize Ratio: 2.28
A value less than 2 is considered to be relatively good; the boat should be relatively safe in bad conditions. The higher the number above 2 the more vulnerable the boat. Is just a rough figure of merit and controversial as to its use.
Sailing Category: cruiser/racer
The four categories are racer, racer/cruiser, cruiser/racer, and cruiser in order of descending performance
Pounds/Inch: 707
The weight required to sink the yacht one inch. If the boat is in fresh water multiply the result by 0.975. If you know the beam at the waterline (BWL) multipy the result by BWL/Beam.



I got this:
Performance Comparison LOA Kelt 7.6 24.92

Mirage 25 24.08

LWL Kelt 7.6 21

Mirage 25 20.72

Beam Kelt 7.6 9.42

Mirage 25 9.38

Displacement Kelt 7.6 4500

Mirage 25 4226

Sail Area Kelt 7.6 282

Mirage 25 275

Capsize Ratio Kelt 7.6 2.28

Mirage 25 2.32

Hull Speed Kelt 7.6 6.14

Mirage 25 6.1

Sail Area to Displacement Kelt 7.6 16.55

Mirage 25 16.83

Displacement to LWL Kelt 7.6 217

Mirage 25 212

LWL to Beam Kelt 7.6 2.23

Mirage 25 2.21

Motion Comfort Kelt 7.6 15.69

Mirage 25 15.13

Pounds/Inch Kelt 7.6 707

Mirage 25 694

Re: Buying A Kelt ( ) (Comment or Suggestion) (Comment or Suggestion)
Posted by: F : Moussaillon - E : Ship's Boy David Bakody (IP Logged)
Date: 10/13/2004 07:17PM

Sorry Fokes......

Check main page for New topic I will post here later perhaps then again let see what breaks....... DB

Companionway sliding hatch cover - Kelt 7.6 ( )
Posted by: F : Moussaillon - E : Ship's Boy Doug Maybee (IP Logged)
Date: 10/14/2004 10:14PM

I own a 1986 Kelt 7.6 and keep it in Oakville Harbour. Does anyone know where I can get a companionway sliding hatch cover? When I bought the boat four seasons ago, it came with an acrylic hatch cover, which is somewhat damaged now. Apparently, at some point the original hatch cover was damaged and was replaced by this acrylic cover. I'd like to return the boat to its original look and would like to buy one - if indeed one can be found - or have one made. Any ideas on where I could possibly find one or have one made? And the specs? I'd really appreciate your thoughts. Cheers, aye

Doug Maybee

Re: Companionway sliding hatch cover - Kelt 7.6 ( )
Posted by: F : Moussaillon - E : Ship's Boy bob Leonard (IP Logged)
Date: 10/15/2004 07:28AM

We have a Kelt 31 and would love to hear from you and your club. We are interested in jioning a Kelt owners club. I now of a Kelt 8,5 based at Mistley on the River Stour.

Re: Companionway sliding hatch cover - Kelt 7.6 ( )
Posted by: F : Moussaillon - E : Ship's Boy Maurice (IP Logged)
Date: 10/15/2004 01:01PM

Good to hear from you and welcome to the Web Kelt's Owners Club. Here's the website address: [uk.groups.yahoo.com];

Re: Companionway sliding hatch cover - Kelt 7.6 ( )
Posted by: F : Moussaillon - E : Ship's Boy David Bakody (IP Logged)
Date: 10/19/2004 09:12AM

Doug:

I would start with Dave Ellis of Harris & Ellis Yachts in Pronte, they have done some beautiful work, it would not be cheap, but with a long Ontario Winter ahead of you it might work to your advantage. You may have to scout out another owner to get his/hers for a pattern. All of us good ode boat owners must learn to be resourseful .....goo luck.....

David Bakody
Dartmouth Nova Scotia.....old Waterdown Boy.....

Kelt 760 Original Brochure ( )
Posted by: F : Moussaillon - E : Ship's Boy pmoore (IP Logged)
Date: 10/28/2004 11:57AM

The original brochure is currently online at:

[www.anchoryachtsales.com];

Re: Buying A Kelt ( ) (Comment or Suggestion)
Posted by: F : Amiral (am) | E: Admiral (Adm)F : Amiral (am) | E: Admiral (Adm) Yves Julien (IP Logged)
Date: 10/29/2004 03:25PM

Hi Guys,

No matter how tempting is it to post ads here, please don't! Our forums are financed with our ads section. If nobody use it, we will have to shut down the forums.

Thank you,

(Y.J. - Webmaster)

Re: Buying A Kelt ( ) (Comment or Suggestion)
Posted by: F : Moussaillon - E : Ship's Boy yvon gregoire (IP Logged)
Date: 12/03/2004 04:41PM

Hello everybody!
I'm quite interested into a kelt 7.6, is the construction good? moisture? balsa?
is there any weak point I should look for when I visit one?
I heard that there are two differents mast lenghts?
What's the inside height?
I live in Bonaventure qc, and will sail on the gulf of st-laurence all the time, is it solid and big enough?
within this price range I could get mirage, candc, cs27 so it's a bit confusing.
I'd really appreciate any help. Thanks a lot and I wish you the best wind!

Re: Buying A Kelt ( ) (Comment or Suggestion)
Posted by: F : Moussaillon - E : Ship's Boy Maurice (IP Logged)
Date: 12/03/2004 06:03PM

I own a 1982 Kelt 7.6 that I bought from the first owner, 10 years ago. It is not only a excellent boat, that sails well and fast and turns on a dime, but it is also a boat with well thought of accomodations below. It may be rated in Canada as a 25 footer, but in fact it can withstand favorably the comparison with any 27 footer around (more on this above on this site).
During the last 10 years I had the boat surveyed 3 times (for insurance purpose) and the surveyor has yet to detect any construction or structural problem. The only weak point the boat may have is the owner himself! If the boat was neglected...
As far as detailed about the construction, this is what the documentation that was delivered with the boat when it was purchased new (1982) said about the deck:
" The deck features innovative construction techniques far ahead of the competition. All traffic areas are reinforced with high density aircraft grade urethane foam sandwich. When this material is combined with the hand laid fiberglass mat and roving, an exceptionally strong yet lightweight deck is the result. In addition, all deck fittings have inlaid 9/16 inch mahogany plywood backing plates to spread the load and withstand compression.
Because all components of the boat are hand laid, you are assured of the highest ratio of glass to resin guaranteeing great strength in the boat structure. All material is cut to precise patterns eliminating waste and excess weight. Transverse reinforcing is applied in the keel area to give additional strentgh and support. Hull thickness varies from six to thirty-four layers of fiberglass. That gives a thickness of about 1 inch of solid mat and roving in the keel area."
With regards to the mast length, I'm not aware that another rigging configuration was an option with the boat. The original brochure doesn't mention it. But that does not prevent someone to have the original mast changed.
Inside height: you can stand up at 5'10". Over that it's a problem. The brochure will claim that you can stand up to 6' but I guess they must have tested that with a "small" 6' person.
You seems to indicate that you could get more of a boat for the asking price on the Kelt. The Kelt is a surprisingly dry boat (I don't have a bildge pump and won't probably never need one). Of course, I use a Honda 8 HP outboard. Not having an inboard have its reward. The question for you really comes to: do you want more or better for the same price? Because with the Kelt, you can only have better!

For your information there is a Kelt Owner Association at the following website:
[uk.groups.yahoo.com]

My suggestion, don't hesitate too long, good boats are hard to come by.
Good luck!

Re: Buying A Kelt ( ) (Comment or Suggestion)
Posted by: F : Moussaillon - E : Ship's Boy Yvon Gregoire (IP Logged)
Date: 12/03/2004 07:51PM


Hi Maurice!
I really appreciate your informations, about the mast lenght, I think that the kelt imported from europe would have the shortest one.
I know there are kelt with inboard, does it worth to pay more or is an outboard a better choice since the inboard are getting old and will be more expensive to rebuild than to buy a new outboard.
There are actually 2 types of kelt, a fin keel and a centerboard type, I always thought that a centerboard were more prone to have problems of structure?
Do you know if there are any trailers available somewhere for a kelt, since I live far away from every kelt I found so far.
Thans again! Yvon gregoire

Re: Buying A Kelt ( ) (Comment or Suggestion)
Posted by: F : Moussaillon - E : Ship's Boy David Bakody (IP Logged)
Date: 12/03/2004 10:14PM

Yvon:

From what the original owner of CERT CITO told me ( built in Ontario Canada in 1983 & he kept her for 20 years) the Canadain Kelts were build with a slightly higher mast approx 2 feet/.609m ). Most trailors are locally produced by welding the steel cradle to a suitable trailer. If you want to spend big bucks you can, there are many top qualified trailer builders in the market place. Due to the quality and availability of light weight 4 stroke outboards with a good charging sytem the outboard is the way to go. The space provided for an inbaord is ideal for a portable gen set ....good around the home in the winter just in case of an extended power failure, now is that justification for the finance department or what........Cheers David

Re: Buying A Kelt ( ) (Comment or Suggestion)
Posted by: F : Moussaillon - E : Ship's Boy David Bakody (IP Logged)
Date: 12/03/2004 10:14PM

Yvon:

From what the original owner of CERT CITO told me ( built in Ontario Canada in 1983 & he kept her for 20 years) the Canadain Kelts were build with a slightly higher mast approx 2 feet/.609m ). Most trailors are locally produced by welding the steel cradle to a suitable trailer. If you want to spend big bucks you can, there are many top qualified trailer builders in the market place. Due to the quality and availability of light weight 4 stroke outboards with a good charging sytem the outboard is the way to go. The space provided for an inbaord is ideal for a portable gen set ....good around the home in the winter just in case of an extended power failure, now is that justification for the finance department or what........Cheers David

Re: Buying A Kelt ( ) (Comment or Suggestion)
Posted by: F : Moussaillon - E : Ship's Boy Yvon Gregoire (IP Logged)
Date: 12/03/2004 11:30PM

Hello David!
Thank you very much for the tips.
Yvon gregoire

Re: Buying A Kelt ( ) (Comment or Suggestion)
Posted by: F : Moussaillon - E : Ship's Boy Maurice (IP Logged)
Date: 12/06/2004 05:29PM

Hi Yvon,
Diesel versus outboard? I had diesel engine on my two previous boats. I love them for their reliability and the long range they let you to go without the constant worrying as whether or not you have enough gazoline to reach your destination and come back. Sure you can't take them to the shop for maintenance and repairs (that how you become more self reliant), but I wouldn't call taking the outboard (honda 8 HP) to the shop a picknic either, and labour cost doesn't make much difference.
The transition from diesel to outboard was kinda long for me. Never had one before (I rowed ashore) so I had to learn everything about them. The learning curve was rather steep as after only a few months with the boat, the water intake line got glugged in, in the worse possible situation. We were this close to loose the boat on the rocks and God only knows what would have happen to us. So it took me a very long time to trust my outboard (which I bought new after that incident) again. But to this day I still pull the outboard out of its well at the end of every cruise. And I keep aware of the slightest change in the engine running.
If I had the option to buy a Kelt with an inboard or an outboard, I'd go for the diesel one. Once again, depending how the engine was taking care of, it might be a good stretch before you'd have to rebuild one. After all they are not running 24/7 (which would probably be best) so it takes a while to wear one. This is where you definitely need to have a good marine diesel mechanic's opinion and "listen" to what he has to say instead of hearing what you wish he would say (we all do this with boats and women).
Just from the point of view of maintenance, there is no doubt in my mind that you are better of with the fin keel model as opposed to the centerboard type.
As for the trailer, the West coast is the wrong place to look for one. Most sailor keep their boat in the water year round. Actually it's more like Vancouverites and Victoria residents keep their boat in the water year round. Up the coast, they get the same nasty wheather than you guys! In any case the problem with trailer and the sea is... the salt! Gets everywhere, in the most impossible place to flush properly with fresh water and they hardly last. To maintain them in a state of good repair, may coast you more than maintenance of the boat itself. Is it worth the money then? David Bakody, on this site, had a good answer about the trailer thing.
Hope this helps!
Maurice

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